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[Contests] Extravaganza in Salty achievement?

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  1. Zahana <Angler>, 3 years ago:

    Secretsauce wrote:

    My final peeve: who exactly are the people that are complaining about the competition as part of the achievement? I understand people who can't participate in the competition, they have a valid point, but not being able to win is not an excuse, try harder.

    If you look at the cooking title, there is nothing that requires you to race against other chefs and leave yourself exposed to the gankfest that is the Stranglethorn Fishing Extravaganza. When you pay a dozen people to gank the opposing faction or go jump up and down to block the bobber of fishermen of your own, it doesn't show off your skill as a fisher. It shows that you can effectively buy your way to a new fishing pole.

  2. Mitzy <Angler>, 3 years ago:

    Errm, what do the requirements for a cooking title have to do with a fishing title? And I'd say clicking the bobber this and this many times in a certain zones to catch X number fish or a rare fish doesn't exactly tell anything about fishing skills either.

  3. will <Angler>, 3 years ago:

    Mitzy wrote:

    Errm, what do the requirements for a cooking title have to do with a fishing title? And I'd say clicking the bobber this and this many times in a certain zones to catch X number fish or a rare fish doesn't exactly tell anything about fishing skills either.

    You actually just underlined my own thinking. The title chef is easy to obtain, in fact all of the titles are easy to obtain. Except for fishing! Time and a little patience is the only thing required for all of the titles. Then you through in a contest that is not so easy to win, for a single title.

    On the on hand I love this idea as being Salty means more. On the other hand it is not comparable to the other titles, as it requires a chance of winning something that is only available once a week.

    Overall I am still torn. There are some great arguments for both sides. For the most part I think that what will happen will be a vast number of people, who were never fishers before the achievements, will qq enough that Blizzard will remove it.

  4. Sauce <Salty>, 3 years ago:

    Zahana wrote:

    If you look at the cooking title, there is nothing that requires you to race against other chefs and leave yourself exposed to the gankfest that is the Stranglethorn Fishing Extravaganza. When you pay a dozen people to gank the opposing faction or go jump up and down to block the bobber of fishermen of your own, it doesn't show off your skill as a fisher. It shows that you can effectively buy your way to a new fishing pole.

    Fight fire with fire? Get a crew of your own, I helped several people back in the day like that. I was originally on a PvP server so I'm familiar with the Sunday STV battleground. The biggest posse in the world still doesnt guarantee a win, though I understand where you're coming from with that. Although, I have also seen foul play across different types of servers so it's not like you are exempt if you are not on a PvP realm.

    will wrote:

    For the most part I think that what will happen will be a vast number of people, who were never fishers before the achievements, will qq enough that Blizzard will remove it.

    This is my big reason for opposing the removal of the competition from the title. I have seen a huge influx of idiots in STV on Sunday since the patch was released. Coincidence? I think not.

    As far as cooking goes, what would you add to the achievements to increase the difficulty of obtaining the title? At least they made a fair attempt to compile those achievements (looks at the lonely 3 or so achievements in the First Aid section).

  5. Vicenti <Angler>, 3 years ago:

    There have been a few mentions of how it takes ‘fishing skill’ to win the extravaganza and how the other achievements are of less value, as they are just a matter of spending time ‘clicking on the bobber’.

    From what I know of the extravaganza it’s just the same as normal fishing, you cast and try and land in a pool, you can’t aim your cast, just like normal fishing, so no skill required there. Next you need to click the bobber after it splashes, just like normal fishing, no skill required there. It seems to me that the only significant difference between winning the extravaganza and completing any of the other achievements, is that you are in a race against other human competition, rather than battling the odds to reel in a rare catch.

    To win the extravaganza, coming prepared with the right gear is gonna help, doing some research and deciding on some tactics is also gonna help, but when all is said and done, you are going to be relying on good old luck to be the first person across the line. Most of the competition will have made the same preparation as you and you’re not going to be clicking that bobber with any more skill than they are.

    Winning the extravaganza is the ultimate fishing achievement, but not because it shows off skill, there is no skill in wow fishing, but because it’s the rarest of all fishing prizes. Limited by once per week Sunday only availability, it becomes rarer then Pinchy, Crafty and Ironjaw all rolled into one.

    To me fishing is an entertaining sideline, like my other favourites, cooking and pet collecting, however, I don’t see it as anymore special than them, so can’t agree that the meta-achievement should be limited availability when the others are not. If there is a limited availability title associated with fishing, then it should be tied to the limited availability achievement, ie winning the extravaganza. Blizzard could easily make it a two tier system by adding an extension to the salty title so that no one has to choose between the two ie salty (for completing the meta) and uber salty (of you also win the extravaganza).

    The inclusion of the extravaganza in the meta-achievement for the salty title is a blow to long term, dedicated fishermen, who can’t play on a Sunday, don’t leave us with no real chance of the meta, give us salty and make an extension to salty for the extravaganza champions.

  6. Mushroom <Salty>, 3 years ago:

    Vicenti wrote:

    give us salty and make an extension to salty for the extravaganza champions.

    "Really Really Salty"

  7. Zahana <Angler>, 3 years ago:

    Vicenti wrote:

    ...Winning the extravaganza is the ultimate fishing achievement, but not because it shows off skill, there is no skill in wow fishing, but because it’s the rarest of all fishing prizes. Limited by once per week Sunday only availability, it becomes rarer then Pinchy, Crafty and Ironjaw all rolled into one.
    To me fishing is an entertaining sideline, like my other favourites, cooking and pet collecting, however, I don’t see it as anymore special than them, so can’t agree that the meta-achievement should be limited availability when the others are not. If there is a limited availability title associated with fishing, then it should be tied to the limited availability achievement, ie winning the extravaganza. Blizzard could easily make it a two tier system by adding an extension to the salty title so that no one has to choose between the two ie salty (for completing the meta) and uber salty (of you also win the extravaganza).
    The inclusion of the extravaganza in the meta-achievement for the salty title is a blow to long term, dedicated fishermen, who can’t play on a Sunday, don’t leave us with no real chance of the meta, give us salty and make an extension to salty for the extravaganza champions.

    Personal opinion, it should have it's own title (Master Angler) and not be included in the Salty title

  8. Kunjana <Salty>, 3 years ago:

    I understand the issue with some people never being able to achieve Salty due to work considerations, etc...but like others have said, there are other titles/rewards/achievements in this game that I will also never be able to achieve due to the same considerations. What makes those so different from this? I accept that those other rewards are out of my reach, as some people should accept for the Salty title. As for the PVP perspective...you rolled a character on a PVP server. *Everything* is harder on a PVP server. You knew this when you rolled the character that you were opening yourself up to a world of difficulty in certain areas/goals. Even if you didn't know it at the time when you rolled, you would rapidly become aware of it by oh, level 20 or so...at least I certainly did when I leveled a character on Venture Co. server. Yikes.

    Personally I like that the STV Extravaganza is a requirement. It makes this title actually mean something hardcore rather than it being a brain-dead activity that any previously non-fisher Achievement Whore will bang out just for a wad of meaningless points on their raiding off-nights. For me, the whole point of fishing is that it's a skill that a LOT of people think is really, really, boring or stupid so they don't do it. I love it! It's fun for me, I have 3 characters at 375 fishing ready for Northrend. It is lame to watch something you've been dedicated to for nearly a year be trivialized to a mere point-accumulation activity on everyone's part just because they want the title. Do not make it easier for them by removing STV tournament from this achievement. It's the only thing keeping them away from this title.

    I worked my ass off to win that tournament, did my research and formulated a strategy. It took me a month to achieve the win and to me, that's some serious dedication to fishing. I don't want some other title. I want Salty. You have to be Salty to win STV. You gotta be tough and Salty. You gotta WANT to FISH. Keep this title rare, keep it the way it is. Something in this game has to be hardcore.

  9. Sharina <Salty>, 3 years ago:

    Personally I think putting the Extravaganza in the Salty requirement was a mistake.

    I think the STV contest should have been listed as a Feat of Strength with the reward "Master Angler" or even "Master Angler of Stranglethorn" (if they can fit that that many letters).

    It doesn't reward any points, but it still gives proper recognition to those of us who logged in every Sunday, prepared, and repeated attempts until we won.

    Something a lot of people who haven't won the contest don't understand is that for those of us who HAVE won, it is important that the achievement is not just swept aside or removed entirely.

    So, I think the proper thing to do would be to remove it from the Salty requirement, make it a Feat of Strength, give it it's own title.

    Anyone who disagrees with giving it its own title simply wants another title for doing nothing --- those who are fortunate enough to win just don't want the achievement taken out and swept aside like it means nothing when we went through a lot of frustration to win.

    Meanwhile, they can add in other achievements for Salty to compensate. I'd like to see the fish caught achievement upped to 10,000 or even 20,000. They can also put Ironjaw and Crafty back in if they really wanted to.

    1000 fish caught, to a true fisherman or woman, is chump change. In addition to that, you'll catch far more fish than 1000 while working on the other achievements so it should be something high like 25,000.

  10. Zahana <Angler>, 3 years ago:

    It's not as if removing the Extravaganza would make it so just anyone with a little bit of time on their hands would earn the Salty title. It will still require more work than just fishing while you're sitting around waiting for a raid to start. I put in a decent amount of work just leveling fishing, not to mention running around and attempting to pick up all the other achievments that go toward earning Salty.
    I understand that there are titles that I'll never have a shot at. It takes alot of effort to get win a PvP title for example. The difference PvP titles are for endgame content, fishing is a secondary proffesion. If the Chef title required you to cook up a recipe that only dropped from a single mob the only spawned, learned 1 of 8 or so recipes with less than a 1% drop rate, and cook up something in every major city in the game, then I wouldn't see an issue with the Extravaganza being part of Salty, cause at least there would be some parity with the secondary profession titles. As it is right now the Chef title is a slap in the face to the Salty title.

  11. heraklen <Angler>, 3 years ago:

    I feel that for a comparison we should compare fishing with cooking , both are secondary professions.
    To achieve the title in cooking you just have to be persistent and have luck with daily quests , most people will be bored out of their skull doing it and therefor not many will do the achievement.
    Same with fishing except , we have the show stopper 52 tries a YEAR only.

    Most of the guys positive for keeping Extravaganza in the achievement just want it there cause they have worked for it , and it is something that takes work to do and a fair amount of luck.
    I can understand that , having a separate title is fine for me but including it makes the rest of the achievements kind of moot to go for since you know the ultimate goal (the title) is out of your reach.

    But have anyone even calculated the pretty steep requirements of The one that didn't got away , Mr. Pinchy's Magical Crawdad Box and The coin master ?
    They have lot of luck involved and takes a lot of work to do .
    Unless you have a streak of extreme luck , it will take a LOT of time , easily bored people will drop making the achivement long before you get any kind of overpopulation of Salty on the servers.

    [edit] I wholeheartedly agree what Sharina says , he/she worded it exactly what I was aiming for :)

  12. Sharina <Salty>, 3 years ago:

    In my guild, more people leveled up Cooking than Fishing. The reasoning is that a lot of them don't have the time or patience to level up fishing (citing that it's "boring and slow").

    Knowing that Cooking is more "mainstream" I think was the reasoning for the cooking achievements being more do-able or slightly easier - more people would attempt this because they already have the cooking skill and recipes etc.

    Those of us who have leveled up Fishing don't have a problem with expending a lot of time or patience -- that is a part of Fishing we accept.

    I think the developers recognized that a lot of fisherman and fisherwomen would be up to the challenges and put in as many difficult things for us to work on as possible because as fishers, we are willing to put in the time and patience that is required for a supposedly "boring" secondary profession like Fishing.

    What annoys me the most are the people who didn't bother to level fishing, didn't bother to try winning the Extravaganza, or fish up Mr. Pinchy BEFORE the achievement system was put in. Those of us who went through all of those hoops without the achievement system obviously were more motivated to do this.

    And I can assure you, I've seen a lot of QQing on my server coming from people who were simply "too busy" in the game doing other things to attempt those feats before the achievement system. They were "too busy" working on their arena points, raiding, or doing other things and thought Fishing was worthless.

    Now all of a sudden that there is some recognition (epeen factor) for it, they want to do level up fishing and do everything that most of us on this board did months or years ago for little recognition, but they are crying about having to put in a lot of time and effort and want achievement after achievement removed.

    I told a friend of mine that the achievement system was going to ruin this game and frankly, I think it has. It is promoting anti-sportsmanship among players and has revealed the people who have to do every single thing in the game so they are satisfied with themselves.

    I do not raid the 25 mans due to not having the time to keep a dedicated raid schedule. So instead, years ago, I started fishing -- something I could do at my own pace, on my own time.

    I don't QQ about not having any of the titles or gear associated with 25 man raiding -- I also am not making any efforts whatsoever to start raiding again. I know I can't keep that time schedule, I know I will "miss out" on the titles and gear, but I am not making an effort.

    I recognize that you cannot do everything in the game - you need to pick your battles.

    Once again, the Fishing achievements are difficult yes, but the developers have known for quite some time that those of us who fished well before the achievement system was put in have the motivation and patience to complete these achievements.

    We fished when no one but ourselves cared. We fished when the only "recognition" was having that rare fish in your bank or your backpack. We fished when the hardcore raiders and pvpers laughed at us for "wasting time" on fishing.

    I say leave it all as it is or move the STV contest to its own achievement WITH title.

    It would be interesting to see who would still level up fishing and keep an interest in it if suddenly the achievement system was removed. If you're suddenly now fishing for the wrong reasons (e-peen factor), you need to stop and think hard about why you are doing what you are doing now, and why you are even playing this game.

    /end rant.

  13. heraklen <Angler>, 3 years ago:

    Thank you Sharina , I agree wholeheartedly with you.

    Make it a separate feat of strength with its own title , problem solved.

  14. Utopia <Salty>, 3 years ago:

    heraklen wrote:

    Thank you Sharina , I agree wholeheartedly with you.
    Make it a separate feat of strength with its own title , problem solved.

    I also agree totally,and have made my opinions known on the General discussion forum,in the hope that someone from Blizzard reads it.
    The fact that the Salty title is obtainable by less people than a pvp title(I forget which one as I'm pvp-phobic ;) ),whilst being a secondary profession,and the disparity between its difficulty and that of the Chef title makes winning the Extravaganza more than worthy of Feat of Strength status,with its own title.

  15. Norrinir <Salty>, 3 years ago:

    Yes, Fishing is indeed just secondary profession, however, it's more complex than (maybe almost) every main profession, I'd say. You cannot compare fishing to cooking, just because both are secondary professions. For many of us, fishing is "the ultimate profession". For something this complex, there should be something like ultimate title.

    Just because Chef is easy, it doesn't mean that Salty should be easy as well (most of Salty title is just "mindless" grind, you could call it somehow "easier"). There are some titles, not feats of strenght, that will be nigh-impossible to get (Hot Hot Hot Streak for example), so... imagine Salty being the "Hot Hot Hot Streak" of Fishing.

    What would be point of achievements, which are very hard to get? Just because you can't win Extravaganza, doesn't mean that this title should be nerfed. Most of people won't manage to win 10 ranked games at 2000+ rating, well, most people won't even manage to get to 2000, yet no-one wants to see this achievement nerfed.

    I agree there should be something for those, who devote such amount of time to fishing. But you can't just say to remove Extravaganza from Salty title and give Extravaganza winners their own title. Fishing just needs ultimate reward for the best ones, in my opinion. If you need title for "normal" fishing, let's ask for another title. And Extra Salty... that's just strange..

    It took me tremendous amount of time to complete all fishing achievements and I don't want to see it nerfed now. I don't want to see Salty being same as Jenkins (I'm exaggerating, but you get the idea). It just should be very rare, as it is now.

    That's my opinion.

  16. Yender <Salty>, 3 years ago:

    I don't have much to add on this but I agree with those arguing to keep the extravaganza requirement for the Salty title. Blizzard cannot please everyone, I'm sorry to hear some dedicated fishermen are unable to obtain the title.

  17. Rubezahll <Angler>, 3 years ago:

    I think that having separate titles for the extravaganza and the rest of the Salty achievements makes sense. While both are fishing related, they take a different approach to achieve. Winning the Extravaganza is very competitive, most of the other achievements only require persistence. Mr. Pinchy falls somewhere in between, with there being quite a bit of competition for the Highland pools, but at least once fishing, you don’t have to worry about others jumping in and fishing the same pool (usually).

    I have won the tournament 3 times between two characters and I can completely understand why trying to win is so unappealing to many people. I can honestly say that I won’t be trying again. But the problem is that there is almost no benefit to having won either. Being able to easily reach a fishing level (with the quest pole, and easily obtained fish hooks) to be able to fish anywhere in the game makes Nat’s pole nice to have, but by no means required. As for the hook of the master fisherman, it has been so severely nerfed that it’s not even worth carrying in your bags. A separate title for winning would provide a way to display pride in the achievement while allowing fishermen who are not interested in the stress of the tournament an option for a title that they too can be proud of.

    The worst possible solution would be to change the frequency of the tournament, that would completely undermine the accomplishment of those who struggled to win it “the hard way”.

    As for Mr. Pinchy, I’m very displeased with him. I have caught him twice on one character, but no pet. The salt in that wound is that I did it before the 3.0.2 patch, so no achievement either. <shakes fist>

  18. Gummo <The Pacifist>, 3 years ago:

    How has hook of the master angler been nerfed?

  19. Kahless <Salty>, 3 years ago:

    Gummo wrote:

    How has hook of the master angler been nerfed?

    It hasn't. It's been buffed actually. You can use it on the surface now, you no longer have to be submerged.

    Other than that, I've had once since the first month it was in game and it's the same as it's always been.

  20. Tezuix <Angler>, 3 years ago:

    People have said that they have won twice etc...

    maybe if instead of removing it from the title they could make it so it's only winnable once? this would probably free up about 12 more per year to win.

    people if you want a title so bad, go and work on another one from sunday 4pm to sunday 2pm the following week? that way you can have one and still dedicate your time to the salty title when it's on?

    sure i haven't won it but i dont care, i dont want it removed.

    everyone is whinging about the title is against what fishing is about due to its competitiveness.

    they're right and wrong, its against what fishing is about not because its competative but because it's a title. its a material recognition of completing a few dictated things rather than generally getting out and fishing for fun.

    the acheivment system has ruined so many aspects of the game it's not funny.

    but in fairness if the hollowed got a mask for all occasions removed then the fishing comp should be removed too.

    Happy fishing.

    also to all those who are desperate take one of the free char transfers to a lower pop realm at the release of wotlk because everyone will be too busy wotlking it up.

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