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[Contests] Extravaganza in Salty achievement?

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  1. el <Nat Pagle's Love Child>, 2 years ago:

    I'm very happy to host rational discussion about this topic. But there's no need for personal attacks or insults. Please try and be respectful of the opinion of others. Thank you.

  2. Angler Nakvie <Angler>, 2 years ago:

    Okay, the major problems with the Stranglethorn Extravaganza are as follows.

    1) At most, only 52 people per Realm can win the event per year ( Assuming 200 realms ~10,400 winners total). This assumes that no one wins more then once in that year, which some do.

    How to solve this?

    One way is to have the Event more then 1x a week. Adding another event day would let in double the people.

    Another way, Turn it into a timed quest. Perhaps every Sunday the NPCs spawn as normal and everything goes as normal. Once someone turns in, the NPC offers a timed quest. Say 20 min to 40 of the Event fish. To prevent the using of old fish, make it so the actual catching of the fish is required. Also, have give no rewards beside the achievement. Now the time/amount can be tweaked to vary the difficulty. This elevates MANY of the issues ( its more about skill and luck then about all luck)

    2) On PVP realms, the event basically turns into a gankfest. It turns from being about fishing ( and it is a fishing event) to being about ganking the opponents till you can get your 40.

    this ones harder. One way would be make the event a phased event. Make it so it seems as thought you are the only one fishing. This really detracts from the whole competition aspect though. Perhaps ( if possible) all people engaging in the event are phased into a Sanctuary version of STV ( ie no1 can attack each other.) This still leaves other less savory tactics ( ie jumping in front of someone bobber.)

  3. Azaguth <Salty>, 2 years ago:

    Or they could just leave it as is...I personally like the challenge that the pvp provides.

  4. Angler Nakvie <Angler>, 2 years ago:

    It's not a PVP achievement though. It shouldn't require a full on PVP battle to achieve this title.

    Besides that, its not all of a challenge on balanced ( or other faction controlled) servers. It more of a fishy type of sadism. It's so much fun being outnumbered 4-10:1.

  5. Utopia <Salty>, 2 years ago:

    Angler Nakvie wrote:

    . It more of a fishy type of sadism. It's so much fun being outnumbered 4-10:1.

    I agree. I was literally the ONLY Alliance angler in the competition last sunday, and was surrounded by Horde at every turn...some of them were decent anglers, just trying to win as I was, but many more were only out to disrupt, grief and gank.
    I do realise I am on a pvp server, and outside of the comp that's fine, but this isn't a pvp achievement, although it has become one immense gankfest, and I for one would welcome some changes to the way it works, if nothing else than to put an end to the 52/server/year max winner limit.

  6. Norrinir <Salty>, 2 years ago:

    The problem here is, that the achievements made the Extravaganza what it is now, that being gankfest on PvP realms. Yes, the PvP isn't part of fishing at all and there are few good solutions for it.

    However, the limit is what makes it challenging. Achievements were made to provide these additional challenges and I'm perfectly fine with the fact, that some achievements require luck, skill, patience, hard work or any combination of it. For example, I won't ever be The Insane or just any title tied to raiding.

    Extravaganza itself is perfectly fine, it was this way for four years and I see no reason to change this now. The PvP and other bad behavior (standing in others' pools) is problem. Though the problem was around for most of the time, the achievements just brought it up.

    off-topic: The PvP isn't that bad all the time. I've won 1 vs 2 against Naxx geared resto druid and fury warr and me being 79 in S2 gear. Advice for warriors: do not fish in my pools :D

  7. Vicenti <Angler>, 2 years ago:

    I hope Bliz do something about this soon, surely this title would better serve the fishing community if it were available to more. Wouldn’t it be nice to recognise your fellow fisherman in the street by their title, rather than as it is at the moment with just a few comp winners having the title? There’s always the opportunity for Bliz to give the comp winners there own thing, so they don’t feel they’ve lost out.

    There are plenty saying the title should be rare and for the special few extravaganza winners only, but I think it would be much better as a badge for all fishermen to wear, levelling to max and then picking off that huge list of achievements is certainly enough, in my book, to be worth something.

    To those saying removing the comp would make Salty the next Jenkins, well there’s nothing wrong with Jenkins, it’s a bit of fun! But seriously though, it would still be way harder to get than Jenkins and most people seem to wear a title because they think it makes them look cool, or the title’s funny. I can’t see Salty falling into either of those, so I think it would just end up as a genuine title for the fisherman.

  8. Angler Nakvie <Angler>, 2 years ago:

    Salty becoming the next Jenkins is not gonna happen. People get Jenkins cause its not all that hard and doesn't require much time. Salty requires huge time investments ( barring great luck).

    Something else i noticed is all the people saying that not all that hard, it just requires patience, look at how many of the are on PVE servers. Yes the Achievement is going to be a LOT easier to get on a PVE server, the hardest part ( aka the ganking and raid forces out to prevent anyone else from wining) is not there. In a PVP environment, all you really need is the biger raid force and maybe a little luck. If you got 30 people killing other fishers on your behalf, its rather hard to lose.

    The problem is that the nature of PVP servers breaks the event. It stops being about fishing and starts being about ganking everyone. If you got people with you that will gank for you, you can easily win ( 1 death = loss from my experiences). Luck starts to play a factor when multple parties bring friend to help in the ganking.

  9. Azaguth <Salty>, 2 years ago:

    Hmmm...I tend to disagree with your comments, Nakvie. I'm on a pvp server, and won twice with NO help from anyone else, since achievements came into play. It's more about knowing the ebb and flow of where the opposing faction mainly fishes on your server, and finding somewhere else with fewer opposing faction members. Luck has a lot to do with it. The last time I won, there were 4 horde fishermen right next to me, but they didn't attack because they, also, were more interested in fishing than fighting.

    Some of that comes from knowing who the true anglers are on your server, regardless of faction. More than likely, they won't attack you...they'll be too busy fishing.

  10. Arakasi <Salty>, 2 years ago:

    On the Official forums I've heard all sorts of arguments to change the tournament around:

    1. Remove the tournament from the meta or make it a feat of strength
    2. Give fisherman a few minute grace period in which they can turn in 40 tastyfish after the "winner" is declared and still net the achievement for themselves
    3. Give winners of the tournament a seperate title, while Salty will be to complete everything else. (/facepalm)
    4. Change the achievement to make it to catch 1000 (or some number) tastyfish instead of actually winning the tournament.
    5. That the days or times should be changed or rotate, etc. in some way.

    Reasons for wanting changes range anything from:

    1. It's too hard
    2. It's too rare
    3. It's unlike other achievements (/boggle)
    4. The 52 a year hardcap
    5. It encourages unfair play
    6. The tournament comes down to nothing more than luck (double /facepalm)
    7. It's an extremely small window of time to complete (i.e. people have other obligations, etc.)

    Now, to be perfectly honest, I don't get it. This is just a title, why do people want Salty so bad? Why don't they go after some other title that suits their playstyle more? Why can't they just leave it alone?

    Many of us that won the tournament before there was an achievement for it had to go through the same stuff that everybody else is going through now...I know I did (except the bobber blocking stuff, that's just wrong and I think a lot worse of anyone that resorts to that). I spent weeks and weeks going through hell trying to win the tournament on a PvP server. I got ganked a bunch, and didn't actually win for my first time until sometime in BC. I didn't come to the boards to complain about it when I didn't win though. I sucked it up and tried again the next week, and the next week, and the next week...until I finally won. Then I went through hell again for a few more weeks before I won the second time.

    Now this is not to say that none of the complaints are legitimate. I certainly feel that there could be something changed to make this a bit more accessible. Overall, I'm not really in favor of changing it, but having seen Blizzard cave on so many other things lately I think it prudent to discuss what the best course of action would be were Blizzard to consider making a change to it that would favor everyone (including those with the titles).

    I've been called an elitist only looking out for my e-peen I don't even know how many times on the Official forums trying to defend Salty to leave it the way that it is. Perhaps it's a reasonable criticism, but regardless I pay my money just like everyone else, and I feel like I have the right to defend Blizzard against the QQers that want to cheapen my own accomplishment simply for their own personal gain. Again, this is not to say that there aren't legitimate complaints out there, but I will address those I feel are legitimate and offer the most reasonable solution.

    The only reasonable excuse I can see for not being able to complete this achievement IMO has to be the limited window of time in which to do it. Normally I would suggest that people just suck it up. Not all achievements are meant to be completed by all people. There seems to be quite a few people out there though that have to work on Sundays...they've apparently worked every Sunday for the past 4 years and will work every Sunday from now until the end of time. I feel for these people, it sucks for them. Church is not an excuse, but work is an obligation which you can't really get around, especially in today's economy.

    Of course, there are many solutions to fix this problem, but I only see one as reasonable: change the time/day of the tournament. My suggestion is to put the tournament on a 3, 4, 5 or 6 day rotation (personally, I would say that 3 or 4 is probably most reasonable). I dislike the thought of Blizzard caving to such a low percentage of the WoW playerbase in general. I think that Sunday is a fine time for 95% of the WoW population and that any other excuse for not being able to make it is pretty lame. But I think with the Calendar being implemented and the title being attached, it would probably be better in general to allow more people to get this title. 3 or 4 day rotations effectively doubles the amount of winners, but it still keeps the title extraordinarily rare, as it should be, but allows for the Extravaganza to be more accessible and would most likely take away a lot of the negative aspects of the tournament (i.e. gank squads and same faction griefing would be a tad bit more difficult to organize).

  11. setsuko <Salty>, 2 years ago:

    I don't think adding a separate title for winners of the contest would suffice. People would still want whatever the new contest title is, and continually complain about it being on Sundays, being too hard, getting ganked, etc and demand for the contest to be made easier.

    Personally, I won the contest a couple of years ago, and it took me probably 4 months. As a holy priest on a pvp server, I was killed a lot. I had friends helping sometimes, and I'd still lose by mere seconds. My only goal was to obtain the fishing pole. It was extremely rewarding when I finally won.

    For those who go to the contest a couple of times and complain that they couldn't win, get over it. A lot of people don't win on their first, second or sixth attempt.

    For those who work and cannot make it on Sundays, I know what that's like. I have a 2nd character that I also fish on, and I've never been able to attain the arcanite fishing pole on her due to work. It sucks, but I'm not going to complain to blizzard about it. I'm shooting for the "Chef" title on her instead, and I'm ok with the mastercraft fishing pole. It looks neat at least.

    For those on a PvP server, well I was on a pvp server, too. Some people get lucky and win without anyone helping them. I needed help. You should ask your friends for help, too. Even my brother would wake up early on Sundays and kill people for me.

    This title is rare, and that's the way I think it should be. I sure wish I could get Scarab Lord, but I'm not going to complain about how it's so hard to attain.

  12. ILubLawn <Angler>, 2 years ago:

    The only complaint I've ever had about the contest is that it's during our raid time. We are not a hardcore any guild in any way, however; we have two healers and I'm one of them. In a 10 man anything that means if I don't go they spend ~2hrs in LFG and friends lists for a healer. They don't want to cut time off of raid to wait for my hunter to go fish...

    So at lest 3/4 shots per month I am trying to keep green bars full.

    I want salty really badly. I will eventually get the winning fish count (37 and 39 respectively on last two attempts), hearth and win.

    This next week our other healer will be MIA, I am trying to convince the rest of the raid to come follow me around and help me out with the contest (scouting and "fishing" in my pool... traveling in a menacing pack). Since I provide the vast majority of the raid food with my fishing, and was the first in the guild to hit 450 fishing I think it is hopeful *crosses fingers*.

    Recently it appears that blizzard is more than willing to remove a part of an achievement from a meta-achievement that gives a title. So I don't know how this will end personally. I know that it is unlikely I will ever get to be "Salty ILubLawn", but it could happen. Until then I will settle for other achievements titles... and having almost every fishing achievement.

  13. Dye <Angler>, 2 years ago:

    I play on a US server, but live in New Zealand so the fishing contest happens on my monday when I am at work.
    I would love the title, but I can't even be online to enter the fishing competition.
    I guess I could play on an Oceanic server, but I'm settled on my current server.
    If they removed this requirement it would make me happy (if only I could catch Mr. Pinchy again and have him give me wonderful Magical Crawdad wishes).
    I can see that they want to keep some titles rare, but still. D:

  14. TheTacoMan <Salty>, 2 years ago:

    I'm a bit confused at all the people who say 'this is not a PvP achievement'. When you are on a PvP server, ANY achievement that requires you to leave your home city becomes a 'PvP achievement' :P. The whole REASON that i rolled on a PvP server was because i wanted that danger while out in the open, the whole 'gank or be ganked' that follows you around when you are leveling or farming.

    If you don't appreciate this feeling, maybe you should re-roll on a PVE server?

    The competition is fine as it is, in fact, it would take away from it if there was some stupid suggestion like making it a phased self only event, or not being able to attack anyone.

    The mere fact that it is a goblin-run event supports this fact, goblins are mercenary, ruthless, and don't really care what you do to win, as long as you win :P. After all, it's goblins that bring us the arena :P, its only natural that their 'fishing' tournament should be just as ruthless.

    Perfect solution: Make it so when you have all the other fishing achievements, a quest pops up, that just asks a single question, if you want to do the STV fishing comp or not. If you say no, it rewards you with the title, 'Salty NAME, the BIG SOOKY WHINGER!', and makes it so you can never get the standalone 'salty' title.

    On a side note, i agree with Araksi, that it should be on a rotation, instead of every Sunday. Or even: One week, Sunday 2-4pm. Next week, nighttime comp - Sunday 8-10pm (NO-BODY SHOULD HAVE ANY EXCUSE TO MISS 8-10PM ON A SUNDAY NIGHT!)

  15. Luma <Salty>, 2 years ago:

    A lot of people are bringing up, that on a PvP realm, the fishing tournament is more difficult. I agree with this fully. What I don't agree with is that because you're on a PvP realm, and that the PvP aspect of this makes it more difficult, that the fishing competition should be removed from the "Salty" title requirement.

    When people create a character on their account, they choose the conditions that they will be playing in. RPPvP, RP, Normal or PvP. Of course it harder to do things when you can get ganked. Let's not forget something though. We chose where to create our toon and it's clearly spelled out what the conditions are that we're choosing from.

    Here's what's happening. People choose to start a new character on a PvP realm. They are choosing to not just play the game, but to do so under more difficult conditions. Our choice. We make it. Anything we do in the game now includes the danger of dying to enemy opponents. Having made that choice, people are now complaining that it's hard to get something done because of their choice.

    Should the people who opted to play on a PvP server get special treatment by having an achievement removed from a title? No way. If you choose the conditions you'll be playing under, I don't believe there's room to complain when it doesn't suit you.

    If the aspect of playing the game with additional challenge doesn't suit you (PvP), you do have the option of moving to a realm where that challenge is removed. People still have choices, they just can't have your cake and eat it.

    Something else that seems to be getting confused is that we're playing the World of Warcraft. A simulation of two warring factions who are making their way in the world. It's not just about fishing. Like it or not, that will always be the case. On PvP realms, you have two warring factions trying to get the fishing tournament prize. Often people wind up dead, but that's to be expected when there's a war going on and you're part of it. Sadly, for many, that means having a goon squad with you to keep you fishing, but that's the game. There are "just fishing" games out there. WoW isn't one of them.

    I'm all for making the time of the tournament at a more reasonable time when the greatest amount of people can attend it. I'm not for taking away from the achievements that people have already worked hard to get. The achievement should stay as it is.

    My best hopes to all in winning the tournament. :)

  16. heraklen <Angler>, 2 years ago:

    The tournament was broken long before the achievement system came into play.

    Salty title just made more people realize this , easy as that.

    The only thing that have changed = more people in the tournament and therefore more extreme methods to win/abuse wow's broken PVP for a win.

  17. fknlo <Salty>, 2 years ago:

    My personal view on the tournament is that it's Ok for the most part and should be included for the salty title. The only issue that I really see with it is that it's held on the same day at the same time every week. As someone that worked Sunday's for the first year I played this game, I feel others in this situations pain.

    I've suggested something that I think would be a decent "fix" to the problem on the official forums before, but I don't think it got any notice.

    Hold the contest every 6 days and 20 hours or something like that. It will eventually fall on a time/day that every single person that plays this game can handle. It might suck for some people that it's at 2 am server this week, but the aussies will love it. Once a week is fine, one winner a week is fine.

  18. Paralord <Salty>, 2 years ago:

    Personally I like it the way it is. if it was easier, I think it would decrease the value of the title. I thought this way even when I did not win the event.

  19. Fobok <Angler>, 2 years ago:

    Personally, the reason I want Salty is to show that I've put the time and patience into fishing. That, really, is what fishing is about, patience.

    If there was a second title to get without the extravaganza, I wouldn't be complaining that I couldn't get the one with it, as some people seem to think. I'd be happy simply to show off that I am indeed a fisherman, and accept I'd never get the extravaganza title like I probably will never get the raiding titles.

    What I don't like is that because I can't do the one thing in fishing that isn't like any other aspect of it, I can't show off that I'm a fisherman. Seriously, what does speed buffs and the ability to outrace other people to a finish line have to do with anything else in fishing? Fishing is slow, relaxing, and based on patience... except for this one event.

    I agree, though, that people who have achieved it and the rest should have their title. But there should also be an easier to get title to show that we're fishermen, even if we're not among the 'best' for winning the extravaganza.

  20. fredje222 <Angler>, 2 years ago:

    to reply to lots of you: i dont think removing it will decrease the value of the title, i mean i have seen more people that have won the tournament (by just competing once and being lucky) then people who completed "One that didn't get away " i think if you caught about 3000 fish for that one that didnt get away-achivement and fished in the capital of other 'side' and you fished the rat and you collected the coins and evrything else you just deserve a fishing title... like 'Extreme Angler' or something
    and if you fish extravaganza + extreme angler you get Salty

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